Diagnostic Teaching, with Courtney Shearer

Growth often begins with a simple question: What can I do better? For Courtney Shearer, the answer was tracking engagement, not just understanding. This insight led her to transform her classroom through diagnostic teaching—collecting real-time data, implementing reflection routines, and shifting ownership of learning to her students. “I wanted to know that students were being heard, being challenged, but really being seen,” she says.

In this episode of Unpacking Education, fourth-grade dual language teacher and AVID Certified Educator Courtney Shearer takes us inside her journey with diagnostic teaching. Her experience provided her with the tools, collaboration, and support to reframe challenges as opportunities. From tracking hand signals and student talk time to encouraging metacognitive conversations, Courtney models what it means to reflect with purpose. Her message to fellow educators: start small, plan for joy, and celebrate both student and teacher wins along the way.

Visit AVID Open Access to learn more.

Transcript

Courtney Shearer 0:00
What about checks for engagement? I wasn't taking data on that. That was a major miss in what I was doing. All I was really relying on was observation. I've been able to take it to that next level and be a lot more reflective of what I'm doing, but what I can do better.

Rena Clark 0:19
The topic for today's podcast is diagnostic teaching with Courtney Shearer. Unpacking Education is brought to you by AVID. AVID believes in seeing the potential of every student. To learn more about AVID, visit their website at avid.org.

Rena Clark 0:37
Welcome to Unpacking Education, the podcast where we explore current issues and best practices in education. I'm Rena Clark.

Paul Beckermann 0:48
I'm Paul Beckermann.

Winston Benjamin 0:49
And I'm Winston Benjamin. We are educators.

Paul Beckermann 0:53
And we're here to share insights and actionable strategies.

Transition Music with Rena's Children 0:58
Education is our passport to the future.

Rena Clark 1:02
So our quote for today is actually from the AVID Certified Educator web page, which you can check out. A headline on the page reads, "Elevate your practice, empower your students, connect with change makers." All right, Winston, Paul, what do we think?

Winston Benjamin 1:21
I'm going to jump in with saying these are all action steps, right? A to-do. Sometimes I think we get caught up in thinking so much to make sure that we're doing the right things. But sometimes it's just doing it, and then we can get the information and figure it out after. So I really appreciate the action steps of trying to do right, and then we'll end up doing right if we try.

Paul Beckermann 1:47
There you go. I'm thinking, so there's three pieces, right? Elevate, empower, connect. And I'm thinking it's kind of the what, why, and how. So what? We're going to elevate our practice. Why? To empower our students. How? We're going to connect with change makers. So that's how I see it in sort of a cohort model, right? How we can together power up.

Rena Clark 2:12
I mean, it sounds like the next Marvel movie. "Connects with Change Makers." I can see that.

Paul Beckermann 2:19
Teachers are Marvel-ous.

Rena Clark 2:24
They are, and that's why I'm really excited about our guest today. So I would like to welcome Courtney Shearer to the Unpacking Education podcast. Now, Courtney is the dual language program coordinator at Reed Elementary, so yes to my elementary peeps, and she has been a member of the AVID Certified Educator program. So she's going to talk to us about what it's like to be in that program and just get some really great insight. So welcome, Courtney. We're so glad to have you.

Courtney Shearer 2:52
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Rena Clark 2:54
And so we always like to ground our listeners in who's on the show. So that was a very quick intro. Just want to tell us a little bit more about yourself so we can know a little bit more about Courtney.

Courtney Shearer 3:06
I'm a fourth grade dual language teacher out in Kuna, Idaho, just outside of Boise. We've had our program going for 20 years, which is pretty exciting. It was a K-12 program, but we've been an AVID school for about seven years. And so it's been exciting to see our journey of finding where we can bring AVID together, which has great academic language practices, with our dual language practices of bringing in, again, that academic language. And so it's been an awesome part of bringing those two sides together for us. So I've taught second grade, I've taught fourth grade, but all the while being the program coordinator for the K-12 program.

Rena Clark 3:43
So lots of different hats. We all know what that's like.

Courtney Shearer 3:45
Yeah, yes.

Paul Beckermann 3:46
Well, we're gonna quiz you a little bit more on your personal journey. Just a little bit. Want to talk a little bit about the AVID Certified Educator program. You were in that group. I'm wondering how that experience sparked efforts around improving engagement in your classroom. How did one lead to the other?

Courtney Shearer 4:08
Yeah, it's been pretty amazing having a cohort of educators in similar grades for my home group facing similar challenges, especially because we can get together and talk about the issues we're having with time and with the testing demands, behaviors. It has helped us talk through some of those barriers. It helps us to see that even though we're kind of all over the country, we're seeing that we have those similar issues, and we can talk through how to work past that.

In addition to that, I'm able to feel pretty confident in saying, "Hey, I tried this. It didn't work. How would you have approached the situation?" And it's been great to see their artifacts and see the things that they're trying, and try that back in my classroom. So I've really appreciated that.

Additionally, I think that for me, the biggest part that has sparked an interest for me is the resources that they've shared. So I'm always saying I want to have that time to explore different resources, and especially as our AVID site coordinator, I know that I need to be doing that. There just feels like there's not enough time. There's always so much on the to-do list. And so being in the AVID Certified Educator program, there's resources provided to us with every single area that we're exploring, listening to other podcasts, such as the Cult of Pedagogy, and those have been so meaningful and so impactful.

And I think what really speaks to that is that as we're going through this, we need to explore just a couple areas, but I find myself wanting to read all of it and see all of it, because it's immediately useful. I can take it back into my classroom. I can share it with my teammates, and I'm excited to bring it back. I'm excited to meet up with my home group when we get back with our ACE program meetings and talk through these. And they just are immediately something we're able to use.

And so for me, it's been able to spark new ideas. Even though I've found that there's been a lot of new that I've brought into my classroom, I've been able to take it to that next level and be a lot more reflective of what I'm doing, but what I can do better.

Winston Benjamin 6:07
So I love that your goal is to constantly improve. And a lot of times teachers build a teaching stance. "I do this because this is what I believe in as a teacher." So the question is, what inspired you to focus on diagnostic teaching and specifically checking for engagement in your dual language classroom? I know you have years of experience, but what was the spark?

Courtney Shearer 6:34
So it was interesting to me when I was looking reflectively at that, looking at those checks for understanding. I felt awesome about it. I have lots of ideas for checks of our understanding, ones that I'm planning for, ones that I can do on the fly, and I do them well because I'm a data person. I love that. I love the PLC journey. I love being able to say, "Hey, this is what I got from my check for understanding. And here's the improvement I want to make for my students."

But then looking at the diagnostic classroom and thinking, okay, what about checks for engagement? I wasn't taking data on that. That was a major miss in what I was doing. All I was really relying on was observation. And I was able to scan the room and see who's slumped down in their chair and who's got that sort of glazed-over look and say, "Okay, maybe we need to stand up and move around a little bit."

But I wasn't collecting data on it. It wasn't meaningful. I wasn't able to monitor what time of day was it. Was it in Spanish instruction more than English? And I can feel that I knew it was during especially during Spanish instruction for our fourth graders, definitely during math after lunch, for sure. Some of those trends you can feel just naturally, but I wasn't sure how to collect data on that to really make change meaningful in my classroom. I wanted something more formal so that I knew that I was making a difference in that area.

Rena Clark 7:58
And we hear all the time we need more engagement, and you're collecting data, but then I'm curious, what was that reflection process like, and what did that lead you to doing differently in your own classroom? And we'd love just some specific, maybe, examples of that.

Courtney Shearer 8:16
Yeah, so I started looking at a lot of different trackers for checks for engagement and looking for that active learning. And that was a little overwhelming at first, finding what I could do meaningfully, because that really required me to be sort of taking that data while I was teaching. And so that was a little bit tricky. But once I started, even just taking quick counts of how many hands are in the air, scanning the room, looking at groups, tracking, "Okay, this is the group I'm going to look at right now. How many people are speaking in that group? Is it the same person talking the whole time, even though we've already built team agreements that all voices are heard?"

So looking at ways of tracking that, I then said, "Okay, this is my reflection. Here's the data I have. Now, what are we going to do to make a change? What are those patterns of participation?"

So one of the things I looked at first is I wanted to be more mindful of the amount of length of instruction. So knowing where I saw those dips in engagement, how long had I been talking? How much time between they had a chance to make connections, make meaning, process the learning, turn and share, ask questions, especially before I was sort of chunking that learning with them? I wanted to know that students were being heard, being challenged, but really being seen.

I also added additional hand signals for them. I've always had the thumbs up, thumbs down, checks for understanding and fist to five, "How well do we understand what's going on?" But additionally, I wanted to add agree or disagree. And if I'm not understanding something, I added a hand signal of tapping on their heads if there was something that they weren't understanding. So I knew that we needed to do a quick turn and discuss with their team. So adding in those little bits so that I could better monitor what was happening, and then they were also more engaged with that conversation.

Paul Beckermann 10:03
I'm curious. We're kind of creatures of habit. I'm curious how the kids reacted when you introduced new things.

Courtney Shearer 10:10
Yeah. So it was really interesting. They responded well to a lot of these changes. The hardest one was when we were doing the reflections. So they had a lot where they've been working with reflecting on their learning, but reflecting on their active participation, active learning piece was a little bit harder.

So we had to really talk about, what does it look like to be an active learner, and why are we doing that? So that one was a little bit more of a slower start. I had to really focus on the why with them. What does that look like? How do we make a change? What would you rate yourself?

And so what I had to do to fix more of that—that end-of-day reflection wasn't working well. So a quick turn into with your neighbor, "How do you know you're being an active learner right now? And why is that important? What's a change you're going to make right now to improve your active listening or your active participation?" It makes a big difference.

There was one lesson where we had done a math multiplication problem. I had asked the question. We'd kind of gone through, did our three reads, we marked it up, asked a question about the problem, not about the solution, just the problem. Had four or five hands in the air, and that was after we'd sort of teased out a lot of it. Okay, right now I don't know if is it a language issue? Is it vocabulary? Is it, again, that lunch slump?

And so I said, "Okay, let's do a quick turn and share. Want you to talk more about this problem. Let's go into what I'm asking you, but turn and share with your neighbors." Brought them back. Slight improvement, but still not as much as I would want.

This time I said, "Okay, I want you to think about this question, but you're going to prepare somebody in your group. You're going to prepare a speaker for your group. This role is going to be sharing out, and you don't know which group we're going to call on because I'm going to roll the dice. Prepare the speaker. But let's brainstorm. What vocabulary words do you think we should be using to prepare ourselves to talk about this particular question, about this problem? Brainstorm really fast. Couple words in there. I want to make sure we're using this while we're preparing our speakers."

And it was night and day difference. They were ready. They were ready to discuss. And those changes boosted their confidence. So while we did struggle a little bit with the reflection, I saw those increases in their confidence and willingness to share out.

Winston Benjamin 12:16
That was beautiful. That was a beautiful conversation of a classroom in action where you're seeing your students, hearing your students, and responding to your students, right? That's the greatest part when it becomes the art, right? There's a science to it, but then there's the beautiful art to it. And I appreciate you describing that art.

A lot of times teachers are also worried about trying to make the right art brush stroke, and they have so many choices, and they have so many strategies, and they're just unsure. What advice would you give a teacher who's trying these strategies but feels overwhelmed by the number of strategies and hoping to be good for their kids? What advice would you have for them?

Courtney Shearer 13:06
There's two things I would say for sure. One is starting small, looking at what is the time of day that you are seeing the biggest issue with engagement. And then once you can identify the why behind that, kind of seeing, again, is it early in the morning, end of the day? Is it a certain subject area? Start in just that area, and only make one small shift, because there is so much to choose from, and I think it becomes really overwhelming.

And so making those small shifts and say, "Okay, did this change improve in that area?" And if it didn't, okay, that's not what we were needing to make that improvement. So instead, I'm going to try something different tomorrow and just focus on that one area at a time, because I think it becomes just a little bit overwhelming.

Additionally, I think the other piece of advice I would say is that there's always so much that we're thinking about when we talk about some of the behaviors that we're facing in the classroom. There's a lot of times I found myself as a teacher constantly having to repeat myself, the behaviors that are on repeat. And who's doing most of the talking? If you go to PE and the only person doing the running is the PE teacher, who's going to get better at running? And I love that analogy. I've always been really proud of that. But then I say it over and over again throughout the years. Is it really making an impact? Clearly, the message isn't getting through.

So coming back around to okay, what other shift am I going to make to try to improve that? So if a teacher is feeling overwhelmed, start with the area of the greatest need and make those small shifts so you're not finding that you have to constantly repeat yourself for your students.

Rena Clark 14:52
I appreciate that. And here's the thing. I came from elementary. I now teach in middle school. This stuff all works. When I was in high school all last year with high schoolers, with middle schoolers, even the hand signals, I mean, I still have kids that come from different elementaries, but they're using the different hand signals to even go to the bathroom. They still use them. They still like stickers. So all of this stuff is absolutely applicable to all ages, even adults.

And I'm also thinking, though, in your unique situation, you teach dual language, which we have a lot of people across the country. Some, and you alluded to the fact that you get to talk to people across the country, so maybe someone's listening. But how did this work for students during in your dual language classroom? Did it work better during—you already said maybe during English, Spanish? People I know around by us, we have schools that also do different languages, Japanese, other languages. But in the dual language realm, how might we adapt these strategies?

Courtney Shearer 16:07
For me, with the dual language content, we really have to focus on the visuals behind it. It takes a lot of preplanning of, "Okay, what is the vocabulary? What are going to be the linguistic demands for this particular lesson?" And planning for it. And I'm never fully prepared at all. There's still questions that come up, "What does this mean? What is this thing or word or whatever else?" And so I do still have to go find other additional visuals, definitely, to support that learning.

But as much as possible, trying to find additional ways of supporting through those visual aids, additionally having the sentence frames available for conversations, for them to be able to discuss, whether it be our novel studies or the math, even the science, to be able to say, "Okay, this is a prediction that I'm making because..." Building up what that language looks like, and then spending the time to build word banks.

So similar to that "prepare the speaker," what are the vocabulary words we're going to need to discuss this? If we're going to talk like a scientist, think or write like a scientist, let's build what that looks like. Let's use our thinking maps or our word maps to be able to support our notetaking. And so having a variety of that and not being afraid to make the connection between English and Spanish. We spend a lot of time discussing our cognates, those words that are similar in English and Spanish, and that's a really critical piece as well. So I spent a lot of time preplanning that.

I think that additionally there's a lot of discussion around success criteria for both general ed classrooms, but also dual language classrooms. But I think for me, the conversation around success criteria is so much more critical when you're looking at a dual immersion classroom, because you need to be able to say, "Okay, we're looking at in a moment where students are struggling with engagement. What is the why? Why are they struggling?"

And so if I know that it's a language issue, it's a content issue, it's a vocabulary or whatever else, it helps me to know where I'm going to pivot. So part of our work we've done with the ACE cohort is looking at that notice, pause, pivot in your instruction, that real-time change we're trying to make. I need to know where those struggles are.

So I have my students spend a lot of time each week, "Here's our learning target, here's how you know you're going to be successful. Turn and share with a neighbor. Which is your area you're strongest in? Which area do you need work on?" And I'm listening to those conversations. And in the area if they share, "Number four is the area I want to focus on." Now share with your neighbor why. "Because I don't understand this word, because I don't understand that." Okay, now I know that this is an issue we're having. So it's those conversations that are going to help me to better understand why we're struggling or why maybe students are checking out to make that decision of how I'm going to pivot as we're maybe seeing less engagement.

Rena Clark 19:07
I'm just curious, because I think all of those strategies, you're very conscious about them because it's dual language, but they actually all sound like awesome tier one strategies that would improve every classroom. So I just think I'm curious, have there been any opportunities, or we talked about challenges, but has anything come to light because of the dual language that maybe other people have learned in the cohort that has just been something that works really well, even beyond dual language classrooms, through the conversations with the cohort?

Just because I think you have a unique perspective being in a dual language finding some of those things, but have any of those ahas kind of transpired into other classrooms, and they've worked really well as well?

Courtney Shearer 19:53
I think probably a lot of the conversations that we've had have been more around we have some shared curriculum. So for example, a couple of the members of my cohort use the same math curriculum that I use. So we've been able to share out the strategies that we're using to help students understand the really challenging approach that our curriculum uses in some assessment. But we have found that students can attack some of the word problems when we're working in class, but then in the assessment piece they're struggling with.

So talking about some of those strategies that are working in the classroom when they're working with peers to then work independently during assessment. So that's been some of the conversations, and those strategies are huge, especially in a dual language classroom. It is difficult when you're taking a test in your second language, which is how I got into dual immersion in the first place.

I was in a college class and a professor walked in, started talking to us in Spanish, and I didn't know a word of Spanish. And then he gave us a test, and I couldn't answer it. And he said, "Every day there are kids out there who are asked to take tests in a language that they don't understand. And you could become part of a program that says, 'Hey, I want to help kids learn in more than one language so that they can access material.'"

And that was 100% why I got involved into a dual language program and learned Spanish that I could teach in Spanish and help in an idea of teaching in Spanish to help students learn English. And so understanding that perspective of how hard it is when you don't understand what's being said to you and needing to hear it in a new way or shown another way or relying on peers, not just for translation purposes, but to have it said in a way that makes more sense. And so some of those conversations, I think, have really been helpful, regardless of what content or language we're teaching in.

Paul Beckermann 21:48
So you've had conversations with cohort members. I'm curious, have you had conversations with your students about the strategies you're trying and have they indicated if they thought the practices were helping them?

Courtney Shearer 22:00
Yeah. So I've had great conversations around that with my students. I asked a group recently about how they felt about what we're trying with the reflections and with having to share rating themselves from a five to one with how much they are being an active learner in that moment.

And one of my students said that she's felt that as a fourth grader that she's been told every year, "Focus, focus, focus." And inside I felt kind of guilty because I thought, "Oh, it's probably one of those teachers that said that to her." And she said that she feels like she knows she needs to focus. But in her words, she said, "Sometimes my brain just takes a walk."

I understand that. But she said that it helps her to know that she can talk to her group and she can ask questions, and that it's okay to ask that. And then she was one that had really responded when we focused on that point of confusion. And I introduced the inverted triangle and how to start with all of the things you know to bring it down to the part that you don't know.

Because she was one, really, especially early in the year, that would start a math problem and say, "I don't know." "Okay, well, what part is it you don't know? What is your question?" "I don't know. I don't know any of it," and not be able to name the part you don't know.

But through this work and through this exploration, she is one of those students, and several others, that now are able to not only celebrate the learning, celebrate their own growth, but can name the parts that they don't understand. Ask their peers, "What is this?" And then I also am finding that there's a big improvement in their relationship with their peers, because students who are helping one another aren't helping and giving the answer. They're able to ask one another in a way that says, "Okay, well, how is the character changing?" If we're doing a novel study, for example, "How did the character change here?" Asking a question versus giving an answer.

So it's been really exciting to see those shifts and how they interact with their peers. It really just gives students more of a voice all around in all subject areas.

Paul Beckermann 23:58
It sounds like that's kind of stemming from a focus on metacognition. Am I catching that right?

Courtney Shearer 24:04
I think so. I think those conversations are, their conversations about their thinking and their reflection make a big difference.

Winston Benjamin 24:12
So I'm going to ask you a two-part question. It's a looking forward and then it's a looking in your rearview mirror. Okay, so I'm gonna ask you the first part, looking forward. What's next for you in developing these practices, right? You got the whole driveway future ahead of you. What's your next thing you want to try to get better at or looking forward to?

Courtney Shearer 24:38
For me, it's more on the blended learning side of things. I definitely integrate the technology, but I think that's the piece that's still missing with some of my notetaking practices, with some of the reflection opportunities. That's the area that I want to work with. And that's been a great area, especially with my ACE cohort, being able to hear their success stories.

I think for me, especially being in a dual language classroom, trying to get content across in two languages and keep students successful when it's very difficult, the time can be a challenge. And I get a little bit nervous. I plan for something, and then I panic a little bit, and I back up. So that's really where I want to focus, is how to incorporate more of that.

I've tried a couple of the glows and grows. So even just a quick, here's a star, here's stairs, and they go in there and they make a quick, what are they proud of from their learning, and what are their next steps for the next day? And that's worked really well. So it's been a small step into that blended learning approaching with our just our reflections. So that'll be a big area of focus moving forward.

Winston Benjamin 25:42
Love that. I love that, the iterative process of getting better, right? Now, if you could give advice to a teacher just starting the journey with diagnostic teaching, what would that advice be?

Courtney Shearer 25:59
I mentioned earlier that idea of starting small and collecting data. I can't emphasize that enough. I think that is so important with looking at where you want to go. But I also think that idea of having fun with it too. When you go to the Summer Institute, you come back all excited with your energizers and whatnot you want to bring in. But if you don't plan for those and make sure that those are written down where you want to do it and how you want to do it, and have some of the flexibility in there as well for those, because it's not just about I scan the room and I understand that we need to turn and share.

We also need to be able to get up and move around, have flexibility with who their study buddies are. We need to have a quick share out, explain why. And maybe it's a math problem that we've got two different answers. We're not making it so we're going to launch into a philosophical chairs for the sake of discussing this answer, but also getting out of our chairs. But being aware that we need to preplan some of that, and some of it we've got to have the tools ready at our fingertips to have something new and different when it's just not working out. So preplanning a lot of that's huge.

And then if students are reflecting and celebrating their hard work, make sure you're celebrating your hard work as well, because we are so hard on ourselves in our reflection and looking at what didn't work in a day. Stop and take a look at what did and what those small shifts are doing to make a change for you, for your students. And make sure that you're really looking at your efforts as well.

Winston Benjamin 27:34
So my dad used to always tell me a little thing, "Plan your work, work your plan." And that sounds like it, right? Plan the efforts that you want to make, and then also sometimes work that plan. But it's time to think about what tools we're going to use for that plan.

Transition Music with Rena's Children 27:50
Check it out, check it out. Check it out. Check it out.

Winston Benjamin 28:00
So Paul, Rena, what's in your toolkit? What are you adding towards this conversation? All right.

Paul Beckermann 28:07
I've got a three-part answer. Clink, clink, clink. Three tools, kind of, but they're all related. So you mentioned your interest in blended learning. We've got a ton of blended learning templates and planning documents and articles over on AVID Open Access. Check those out. There's a whole collection.

Also on AVID Open Access, we have a whole collection of exit ticket templates, so you can just take them, make a copy of them, use them in your classroom tomorrow. Now I know that's only one kind of checking for engagement and understanding, but it is a place in your lesson where you can as they go out the door.

And the other third clink, we've talked a lot about AVID Certified Educator programs. If you're an AVID school and you're interested in that opportunity, you can go to avid.org and you can just search for Certified Educator Program or ACE, and you can find the application there and the details and check it out. Okay, three tools.

Rena Clark 29:07
I mean, Paul could just do all of them, I think.

Paul Beckermann 29:10
No, no, no, no. I want to hear what you have, Rena.

Rena Clark 29:14
Courtney alluded to this before, but I think it's so important for us to just notice, pause, and pivot. So that noticing piece, sometimes we're in such a hurry, but just to—I always say five seconds, it feels like forever for you. It's a blink of an eye to others. It's taking that, the few seconds, and being intentional. Pause before you think, and then you really, then you're able to pivot and make a better choice, but you have to be intentional about it.

Paul Beckermann 29:45
See, you kind of had three things there too, Rena.

Rena Clark 29:47
There we go.

Paul Beckermann 29:48
Notice, pause, and pivot. So I feel a little better about my three. Okay, Winston, where's your three-step plan? Winston, you got three?

Winston Benjamin 29:55
I can try, but it definitely was—I think it's going back to what Courtney was saying. I know you have to collect data and collect information, but don't collect too much where it becomes overwhelming and then you go, "I don't want to do that either," right? Be very planful and mindful of the information that you really want to collect so you actually look at it, because if you don't, it's a waste of your time and the kids' time. So I'm really digging Courtney's "start small" so that you can make better decisions. My bad, Paul, it wasn't three. I'm sorry.

Paul Beckermann 30:39
I think there were three in there. We just got to break it down, but I'm sure they were there, Winston. There were at least three. All right, Courtney, though, you get to add to the toolkit as well.

Courtney Shearer 30:52
I would say for sure, be sure that you are using your energizers. Have those preplanned out. Hand signals I mentioned earlier, looking at your checks for understanding and how you can have a list, too, of what it looks like to be an active listener. So looking at that GROW for your students so they know that they are open-minded. They're wondering, they're asking questions. Bringing that back, those materials up on the wall so that students can reflect on how they know when they're engaged as a learner. Those, I think, are really definitely important in your toolbox.

Paul Beckermann 31:33
Fantastic. All right, now that our toolbox is a little bit fuller, let's hop into our one thing.

Transition Music 31:37
It's time for that one thing. One time for that one thing. It's that one thing.

Paul Beckermann 31:46
Okay, one thing time. Time for our final takeaway today. Rena, what are you hanging on to here as we leave?

Rena Clark 31:54
You gotta have fun.

Paul Beckermann 31:57
It sounds like a song, Rena. Sounds like you got some music going.

Rena Clark 32:01
Shocking. I like to get up. I like to make fun of things. Even today I was in front of—all of a sudden I paused and pivoted because they looked like they're all falling asleep. And I go, "You know what? The engineering design process, we're going to turn that into a game show right now. Come on down." And I was throwing prizes at kids. They all were awake, and they all wanted some prizes. But yeah, it's just have fun. And if you're willing to make fun of yourself and have fun and just relax, kids are going to be more engaged and they're going to be more willing to take risks as well.

Paul Beckermann 32:34
Winston.

Winston Benjamin 32:35
I am still stuck on Courtney's experience of having to take a test in a language she didn't know. And for me, I think it's important to take a step outside of your comfort zone and try to imagine what your students are really feeling and doing. Really sit there and try, put yourself in those awkward situations to try to see why there could be resistance or how I could do better, because stepping out of your comfort zone will help your students be in their comfort zone.

Paul Beckermann 33:15
Yeah, I'm kind of thinking about what Courtney said, that checking for understanding is something that we probably do on default after a while. But do we check for engagement? It's a whole different thing, and I really hadn't thought about it that way so much. So that's hanging with me today.

Paul Beckermann 33:35
Courtney.

Courtney Shearer 33:36
I think the comment made earlier about have fun with it and be silly is huge to me too. That gamifying things, I do, bringing in the Kahoots and those kinds of things that can be that quick check for understanding, but that is flat out immediately everybody's engaged. And you can see what's going well, what's not going well, any of those type of online games or even face-to-face Jeopardy style, whatever, makes a difference too. Because they want to have fun with it. Brings out that fun competitive nature. But don't lose track of doing some of that, because there's a lot of heavy, heavy in what we do. And we just need to have some fun sometimes.

Rena Clark 34:15
Well, Courtney, I really appreciate you joining us today and just giving us the inside look of a classroom and the ACE program. So again, like Paul said, if you're interested in learning more about it, you can go online. But Courtney, we'll see how it goes. By the end of the year, you're going to be an expert.

Rena Clark 34:38
Thanks for listening to Unpacking Education.

Winston Benjamin 34:41
We invite you to visit us at avidopenaccess.org, where you can discover resources to support student agency and academic tenacity to create a classroom for future-ready learners.

Paul Beckermann 34:54
We'll be back here next Wednesday for a fresh episode of Unpacking Education.

Rena Clark 35:00
And remember, go forth and be awesome.

Winston Benjamin 35:02
Thank you for all you do.

Paul Beckermann 35:05
You make a difference.