AI Optimism, with Becky Keene

Can artificial intelligence be more than just a time-saver in the classroom? In this episode, education leader and author Becky Keene shares how AI can be a transformative force in K–12 education. Drawing from her book AI Optimism, Becky offers practical frameworks and powerful ideas that move beyond efficiency toward redefining what and how we teach.

From classroom-tested strategies to thought-provoking insights on student agency, Becky makes a compelling case for seeing AI not as a threat, but as a tool for creativity and innovation. Tune in to discover how you, and your students, can take the wheel in a reimagined learning landscape. Visit AVID Open Access to learn more.

Transcript

AI Optimism, with Becky Keene

Becky Keene 0:00
I feel like using the framework as an educator allows me to put my beliefs at the center and my skill set, then think about what I'm trying to achieve, and finally, how much I want to use AI before I even make a decision about a tool. And that's empowering.

Rena Clark 0:20
The topic for today's podcast is AI Optimism with Becky Keene.

Rena Clark 0:26
Unpacking Education is brought to you by AVID. AVID believes in seeing the potential of every student. To learn more about AVID, visit their website at avid.org.

Rena Clark 0:38
Welcome to Unpacking Education, the podcast where we explore current issues and best practices in education.

Rena Clark 0:47
I'm Rena Clark.

Paul Beckermann 0:49
I'm Paul Beckermann.

Winston Benjamin 0:50
And I'm Winston Benjamin. We are educators.

Paul Beckermann 0:54
And we're here to share insights and actionable strategies.

Transition Music with Rena's Children 0:58
Education is our passport to the future.

Rena Clark 1:02
So our quote for today is from Becky Keene's book, AI Optimism. And at the end of the introduction, she writes, "The question isn't whether AI will change education, because it already is. The question is whether we'll use it merely to automate the status quo or to reimagine what's possible." All right, Winston, Paul, what do we think?

Winston Benjamin 1:29
I'm usually the optimist, but I'm the pessimist when it comes to AI. But I really do have a problem with the traditionalism of education. I don't really know why we have certain holidays off. I still don't farm, right? The traditions of where education started—sometimes I think it does hold us back in what we can do. So I'm really hopeful that we do have the opportunity to reimagine instead of just doing things slowly and trying to get shortcuts. So I'm really down with the idea of reimagining what we could do, but I do fear that people are going to use this for the shortcut. So I'm struggling to try to see the good side in this, but I'm really excited to have a conversation.

Paul Beckermann 2:17
Come on over to the light side.

Winston Benjamin 2:19
I'm just saying. I'm trying, I'm trying.

Paul Beckermann 2:23
I mean, there's good and bad in everything, but I love the mindset of this quote. As it alludes to, AI is already disrupting education as we know it, so we're going to have to adapt and change one way or another. And change is hard, so let's make that change worth our time, right? Let's put some effort into it and make this a change that we really feel good about. The quote says, let's reimagine what education can be. And to do that, I think we just have to ask, what are the parts of the educational system and process that we're really not that fired up about? What needs to be changed? And then let's consider how AI might contribute to that change.

This might be the biggest opportunity of our careers to make that reimagination of what education can be, and I think we should embrace it. So come on over to the light side, Winston.

Winston Benjamin 3:13
I mean, I hear it. I'm down for the conversation. I'm down for it.

Rena Clark 3:17
All right. Well, and that's why I'm so excited to talk about this topic, and I'm really excited to welcome Becky Keene to our podcast. So welcome, Becky.

Becky Keene 3:28
Thank you. So excited to be here.

Rena Clark 3:29
So Becky is the author of the book AI Optimism. She's also a co-author of SAIL the 7Cs with Microsoft Education and the CEO and owner of Digital Labs LLC. And before that, she happened to spend 15 years as a teacher. So she has walked the walk in the Kent School District in Washington State, over here with Winston and I. So another Washington local—yay!

But we always ground our audience so that they have a little bit of knowledge of who they're listening to. So if you just want to tell us anything else about yourself or help us out as we continue on our conversation, we'd love to hear from you, Becky.

Becky Keene 4:13
Well, I will say a couple of things. One is that I spent 10 years working as an instructional coach for Kent School District, and so I also approach things with kind of that coaching mindset of guiding and helping educators move in the direction that really makes sense to them. So I speak to that a lot.

And the other one is I have been out of the classroom for a bit. I get to work with schools and systems all over the world through my work with Digital Labs. But most importantly, just last year, I did my maintenance of certification for my National Boards. So I went back into a middle school, adopted a class, and actually did some of the things with AI that I talk about in the book. So I just think that's important to acknowledge both sides. One, I'm not in a classroom full time anymore, but two, I really do my best to stay grounded and listen and be involved with what's going on in education and some of the realities.

Winston Benjamin 5:12
I appreciate that grounding, because sometimes it's hard to be able to really understand the value of what someone's saying to us. And in your book, you open up with spending some time highlighting the problem with AI and education, right? And then for a person like me, that feels good, so it validates where I'm coming from. So I became more open to actually hearing what you were saying in the book. So that, for me, felt valuable, right? So do you mind going a little bit and talking to us a little bit about what some of those problems are with AI in the education space?

Becky Keene 5:50
Yes, but do you mind if I start with validating you?

Winston Benjamin 5:54
Yes.

Becky Keene 5:55
So when I speak, I often do an activity with my audience where I have them self-identify with one of the five personalities of AI. So you might be a traditionalist or an idealist or a humanist, a cynic. There are different personalities that we bring to a conversation about AI, and they all have significant value. And it's important that we open ourselves up, in the workplace, in our homes, to those different lenses because they each bring something really valuable and important. None of them are deal breakers. None of them ban AI. They all just bring this really interesting perspective.

And at the end of that conversation, we all can choose to be an AI optimist, bringing those lenses along with us. So I want to just honor that, and I love that you started off this talk that way because I think it's just really important to acknowledge that we're all approaching it with different pieces of our hearts and our minds.

And in the book, I dig into some of the things that we see a lot in education, compromising student privacy or student intellectual property. I talk a little bit about prejudice and bias in the algorithms and where that comes from. I talk a little bit about the fact that we have teachers using—I call them easy button AI tools—as the end point. There's nothing wrong with using a tool that just helps us build efficiency and gets us some quick outcomes. But if that's the only thing we're doing with this amazing technology in front of us and our students, then I start to have an issue with that. And that's one of the reasons I wrote the book.

Paul Beckermann 7:49
So in light of the challenges, your book is still called AI Optimism, right? So tell us a little bit more about why that title, what that means—AI Optimism.

Becky Keene 8:01
Well, I have to tell you a little secret to the listeners: that the title came last. There you go. I had written the entire book. It went through editing. We were ready for final copy editing, and my editor said to me, "So we're really going to need a title. We're going to have to work on the cover." And I said, "Right," because I knew what I wanted to say, and it took me a long time to figure out what to call it.

And so I was having a conversation with a trusted friend, and I said, "I just—here's what I want to say in this book," because not very many people knew I was even writing it. I really kept that very quiet. Only a couple people knew. And I just said, "Hey, what are your thoughts?" And the person said, "Well, it sounds like you're trying to encourage people to think positively about the possibilities and really be optimistic."

And I was like, "I can't call the book Optimistic. It's not a thing." And the person said, "Well, what about AI Optimism? That's what you're trying to convey." And the more I let that sink in—it took me a day or two—the more I loved it. And I thought, "That is partly who I am." I tend to be an optimist. I tend to be the one who's like, "Well, what can we do here? This would be amazing." And that kind of cheerful—hopefully not into toxic levels of positivity—but I do tend to look at things optimistically.

So it really fit me as an author and as a human. And then I just loved the fact that I felt I could bring an element of potential to the AI conversation, which is really what I have been hoping to convey for the last three years that I've been out speaking about generative AI specifically. So it was a journey to get there, but ultimately, I'm thrilled with the title, and I'm shocked it wasn't already taken. So I love that story.

Rena Clark 10:04
So now I'm curious, because in your book, you developed a whole new framework called the AI Optimism Framework. So now I'm wondering if that name came later too. But could you tell us more about this framework that was developed and that is talked about in your book?

Becky Keene 10:19
Yes, the name came later. I actually tested out the framework without a name at a couple of conferences months before the book came out because I wanted to get that educator feedback on, "Does this make sense? Does this resonate?" And fortunately, I had wildly positive feedback, and some of the educators were coming up to me at the end saying, "This made so much sense to me. What do we call it?" And I was like, "I don't know yet." So that was awkward.

But basically, if you can picture a wagon wheel—and for readers that maybe have the book or have gone to my website, you can pull it up. It's on page 34, or I provide resources for free through my website for the framework. But basically, if you picture a wagon wheel, in the very center are three core principles, and those are praxis, privacy, and prompting.

So I believe that we should focus all of our decision-making around artificial intelligence in education around those three things. Meaning praxis—what do we do? How do we act based on our beliefs about education? For example, I'm not a teacher who gave a lot of tests and quizzes and knowledge checks. I was a teacher who really focused more on problem-based and passion-based learning, big projects, lots of choice and student empowerment. That's just kind of how I tend to roll. And so I'm not going to be choosing an AI tool that's laser-focused on making quizzes for kids because that's not even something I'm interested in. So using my practice first and then looking at student privacy—obviously, we want to keep student data safe, and that's not as easy as it sounds always in an AI environment.

And finally, the power of prompting. I'm astounded at the amount of times that I talk to someone who's even been using a full large language model, a Gemini or a ChatGPT or a Perplexity or a Copilot, and they're just settling for whatever the model spits out at them the very first response and not realizing the power of iteration and prompting can really limit us as educators. So those are the three things that I really want people to know about and use in their decision-making process.

Then around the core principles is my little wagon wheel of six categories. Basically, I thought really hard about what administrators and teachers and students do every day, and I tried to break that down into categories that really made sense. So my categories are: design, create, support, analyze, evaluate, and manage.

And each of those categories then gives us an opportunity to make a decision. How much will I be allowing AI to reduce my work or possibly transform what I would normally be doing into something completely new and different? So for create, as just an example, I could choose to use AI to just substitute my work and create a worksheet or a quiz or even a video now for my students. I also could create a learning experience that allows students to use a simulation or develop something that's never before been created, build their own games, experience a chatbot from history. Those are things that I could create and allow AI to be a bigger part of.

And so I feel like using the framework as an educator allows me to put my beliefs at the center and my skill set, then think about what I'm trying to achieve, and finally, how much I want to use AI before I even make a decision about a tool. And that's empowering. I hope—I think it's empowering.

Winston Benjamin 14:24
I really like that the push is not settling for what's immediately given, right? I really appreciate that, because a lot of times we don't ask students to do that, right? We'll push students to not settle with the initial aspect of their work. But as another part of your framework, you integrate the SAMR framework as a part of your solution. Could you help our listeners by briefly summarizing what the SAMR is and share how you see that as a potential solution for our AI challenges?

Becky Keene 14:58
So I say it SAMR—that's S-A-M-R—but a lot of us who were trained in that framework years and years ago say it SAMR. Either works. About, I don't know, 15 years ago, I was made aware of the SAMR model by Ruben Puentedura, and it just made sense to me from an instructional coaching perspective, how I could come alongside a teacher and ask the teacher about their goals, what they're trying to achieve, and then say, "Okay, how much do we want to get technology involved?"

And is it something that's pretty simple, just that's S—substitution level? Am I looking to A—augment, meaning add functional improvement to this activity? Am I looking to M—modify or completely change the task to something new and different that we couldn't do before, which is what gets us into our R—redefinition, something previously inconceivable? We literally could not have access to this before we had these technology tools.

And that's something that I've used as a coach—again, not to shove tools at people, but to help them understand the trajectory and that incremental innovation of possibilities and where they feel comfortable moving on that continuum. And so with generative AI, I just felt it was such a natural fit.

Matt Miller, who you might be familiar with—he does Ditch That Textbook. He has a whole line of books. Just a fabulous guy. He had reached out to me and asked if I would be interested in writing a guest blog for Ditch That Textbook. And I was just getting started writing the book, and so I went ahead and did a guest blog on AI and SAMR for his Ditch That Textbook line. And it went out, and we got a lot of really great feedback on it. And that was another piece to me in the book-writing journey where I thought, "Oh yeah, this is resonating. This is something that educators all over are going, 'Oh yeah, this makes sense.'" So I was excited to be able to bring that into the book and help people see that flow in a bigger picture than a blog post.

Paul Beckermann 17:17
I really like the SAMR connection. I was a tech coach for many years as well, and I used that with my staff all the time, and it's something that people can grasp. It just makes sense. And you can kind of see the different levels of integration that you can possibly pursue.

Now, based on my response to the original quote, you can probably tell that I'm probably a fan of the M and the R. I like to redefine education. But I also think there's a place for substitution and augmentation. So I'm wondering if you could just address those levels. Is there a place for AI at those lower levels as well?

Becky Keene 17:58
Absolutely. It's Sunday night at 9:00 PM, and my toddler is sick, and I realize I need a sub for tomorrow. And that is a great time for some substitution-level AI that's just going to get us through the day, right? There's managing my email. There's managing even class scheduling at a secondary level. There's just that kind of entry-level support of students.

One example is we have it in all the platforms. I know it best in the Microsoft world—it's called Reading Coach—but Google has their own solution. There's another cross-platform one called Storywise AI, anyway, where kids are reading aloud and the AI is listening to them and providing feedback to the teacher. The reading task has not changed. Kids are reading and they're practicing their fluency, right? So that's an S or, I would argue, an A—augment level of AI. We're not changing the task at all, but we're surely creating a workload reduction for teachers. We're giving them better access to data. We're giving kids more opportunities to practice. There's a ton of enhanced benefit there, but it's still in the S-A level.

So yes, there is absolutely a place for that, and that's why I don't like to get into what I call AI shaming, which is where we go, "You used AI for that?" Or we all feel guilted into claiming that we used AI to do something. I think as AI becomes more normalized, it will feel so natural to use generative AI in ways that meet all levels of SAMR just depending on what we're trying to achieve.

Paul Beckermann 19:45
Absolutely. And sometimes that's where people have to start. They need to start at that substitution and augmentation. One thing that I was thinking about as you were sharing your example about the software where students read to and get feedback—even though that task is maybe augmentation, it also kind of redefines the teacher role in that classroom as well. So it does a little bit of both at the same time.

Becky Keene 20:10
It definitely enhances the fact that the teacher is amplified. And that's what technology does. It amplifies. So now we don't have a teacher just doing one child at a time. Now they can do 20 children at a time or 30. Yeah, there's a ton of benefit there. But if we look at how that could change for students, then we get into things like they're designing their own stories to read, and you can do that in a lot of those tools, where kids are writing their own stories and uploading them and practicing reading them. And then they're going to do maybe a poetry slam. We could take it so much further than sometimes we do, for sure.

Rena Clark 20:50
So I think you're getting closer to that—the R in the SAMR, the redefine. So I love some examples too about how we can use AI to really redefine schools and learning. Maybe some examples you've seen out in the field. What does that look like? Maybe at some of the different levels?

Becky Keene 21:08
Well, you'll notice, I think, that—so in the book, we walk through the six different categories: design, create, support, analyze, evaluate, manage. And we walk through SAMR for all of those categories, but there's no R in any of the categories because R is its own chapter.

And the reason for that is because it became a little bit ridiculous the way I originally had the layout of the book, because R is so much students in the driver's seat. And so in all the other chapters, I have examples of administrator use or school leader, teacher use, student use. But in the R level, I was really struggling to come up with examples from a teacher or administrative level because the whole point of the R level is that students are creators.

So as examples, we have students developing games, coding games specifically. Now I have done this. I know you all have probably experienced game or video competitions with students or just projects, music projects. These are time-intensive because not only are we allowing students to demonstrate their learning creatively, they're also having to level up a skill set. And while that's exciting, it may not be the goal of that project.

And so I know in my experience and many teachers around the world, they'll go, "We just don't have time for kids to build a game. We just don't have time for kids to do this video because of the time-intensive nature of it."

So what I think is honestly very exciting about generative AI is the opportunity to supplement the student skill set and say, "Okay, you don't need to take 10 hours of coding classes to be able to code a game." And guess what? Now we have a whole term for this—I'm coding, right?—where we're able to take a school-approved tool like Rosebud.ai and actually code a game from scratch. And kids don't need to be an expert.

Now, if they want to go on and become coders and game developers later in life, yes, they are going to need that skill set. But just to develop a fun game for their friends to try out, to show what they know about habitats and ecosystems when they're a fifth grader, we're giving them an opportunity to do really creative and wonderful things by supplementing their skill set.

So that's when we think about redefining in AI, it's really about putting the student in the driver's seat, letting them show all sorts of wonderful learning and really be empowered in that without requiring the supplementary skill set. And I think that's wonderful. It's controversial, but I think it's wonderful.

Rena Clark 24:09
I just think about all the times, even projects kids—if I could, this is what I do, this is what I design. And now there's the potential for that to actually happen without the heavy lift.

Becky Keene 24:21
I've heard from teachers who have said to me the power of really self-reflecting, "What am I assessing in this project? Am I assessing that kids can make a video?" Because if so, they need to be making a video. "But if I'm assessing that they understand characterization and plot in Shakespearean literature, maybe I don't need them to also make the video from scratch. Maybe I need them to use AI to write a script and develop a video that they really think represents their learning, and then I do a whole showcase of that."

So it really is shifting for us in education what we're trying to assess and where we're spending our time and opening up possibilities for students to even understand new career paths, because now they have access to try things out that before would not have been an option because of a skill set barrier. So it's leveling the playing field. It's bringing a lot of equity for kids that, again, maybe didn't have that elective in middle school, so they didn't get to do the activity in high school, and now they can.

Winston Benjamin 25:30
I love that the tools you added—AI being a tool—you're kind of pushing me to being more optimistic, and I love it.

Becky Keene 25:39
Good.

Winston Benjamin 25:40
It's time for our question: What's in your toolkit?

Transition Music 25:43
Check it out. Check it out. Check it out. Check it out. What's in the toolkit? Check it out.

Winston Benjamin 25:50
Paul, Rena, what tool are you adding to your toolkit post this conversation?

Paul Beckermann 25:58
I did not know that Becky was going to say the redefinition was putting students in the driver's seat. But for my tool, I was actually thinking about putting students in the driver's seat and finding ways to utilize student-facing AI applications, letting them get their hands on it. And I know this—as Becky alluded to—this is where a lot of the angst is. Some of the teachers really worry about that and some parents as well. But I don't think we can let that be the reason for us not exploring the use of AI agents as things like virtual tutors or having opportunities for students to get that timely feedback and that creation piece which Becky was talking about, which is so powerful. I really do think it has the potential to revolutionize how kids learn and individualizing instruction and having that immediate feedback. And I just think it's got great potential there.

Rena Clark 26:54
I kind of had some different things I was thinking about, but something that just recently came out—I know that Common Sense Media just released their AI literacy lessons, or they've integrated it now. They've updated, which is interesting because they literally taught one today. And it was really interesting to have these conversations with kids. We were talking about fair use, but even some of the examples around how we use AI for fair use—it was fascinating. We had really good conversations because kids are just as confused as many adults. So those lessons that just came out, I think, are really helpful to have conversations. And that is also—they're good substitute lessons to plug and play some of them if you're in a bind, but they really did open up some really great conversations. And they have 20-minute versions as well.

Winston Benjamin 27:48
I love that. I appreciate you providing a little bit more tools, but I'm going to jump, and I'm going to cheat, and I'm going to say SAMR—S-A-M-R—because as a person who is not always versed in the tech side of education, that sometimes doesn't always utilize the thinking processes that are a part of the product of that domain. And I think this is a really good way of helping teachers make decisions. Can this be helpful to me? How can I go about doing this? What ways can I benefit my students? So I love that little framework. But I'm also going to try to say, Becky, do you mind throwing in your book as another framework for our toolkit?

Becky Keene 28:33
That is so kind. I would be happy to say my book is a great addition to your toolkit. And it's called A Guide for Redefining Artificial Intelligence in Education because my hope—my best day—is when people send me a photo of their book and they've got sticky notes all down the side and tabs with highlighters. Because that's the idea. The idea is that teachers would be able to flip through that table of contents, find something that interests them, a strategy, a pedagogy-based approach, and then read about how to do it. I don't pitch a lot of product. I give examples, but really it's about what we're trying to achieve, our praxis, how we act based on what we believe. So yeah, you can absolutely add my book to the toolkit. It would be an honor.

Rena Clark 29:20
And I believe there's even a study guide.

Becky Keene 29:23
Oh, there is. Yeah, on my website, BeckyKeene.com. If you go to Books, there is a book study guide available—freely available. And there's also a teacher planning guide freely available that complements it. So yeah, go grab those resources.

Paul Beckermann 29:40
All right. So with the book, you get more than one thing, although we do need to jump into our one thing. It's time for that one thing.

Transition Music 29:57
That one thing.

Paul Beckermann 29:58
All right, one thing time. What do you got, Rena, Winston? What's your final thought for the day?

Rena Clark 30:05
I really love this. It comes back to the question, even when we're thinking about using AI, always come down to: What is it that we want students to know and be able to do? And thinking about how are we using AI? What are we actually assessing? And that we can maybe now provide more opportunities and in different ways. So always keeping that as the heart to drive.

Paul Beckermann 30:30
Fantastic. Winston, what are you thinking?

Winston Benjamin 30:33
I am really digging this praxis, acting based on my belief, right? I do believe that students should have an opportunity to explore things that I may not have had an opportunity to explore. So I really appreciate that—the push in that direction to keep trying to open new doors for students.

Paul Beckermann 30:56
For sure. I'm still stuck on the redefinition being student in the driver's seat and how that deserves its own chapter, right? If you're starting out with AI, I think SchoolAI and MagicSchool and Khanmigo—those are some easy entry points into the student-facing experience. Might be able to dip your toes in that way. But get kids involved when your school allows it and when the policies allow it. All right, Becky, final thought for the day.

Becky Keene 31:30
If you're waiting for the future of education, it's already here. So jump on board, try something out, and don't be afraid to take a little risk and see how it goes.

Rena Clark 31:40
Absolutely. Another T-shirt, it is.

Paul Beckermann 31:44
I think so.

Rena Clark 31:46
Well, thanks so much for joining us today, Becky. And you know what? I have a feeling that we're going to be hearing from you again soon. Maybe another book, or maybe we just need to check back in because it would be really interesting to see what this all will look like in different places in a year or two.

Becky Keene 32:07
Agreed. Agreed. One thing about the book, because I don't get into click steps, it's been pretty evergreen so far, six months in. So we'll see. But yeah, you can always follow me. I post about daily, just different little tips and tricks and things. So happy to stay connected with anyone here and your listeners.

Rena Clark 32:28
Thanks for listening to Unpacking Education.

Winston Benjamin 32:32
We invite you to visit us at avidopenaccess.org, where you can discover resources to support student agency and academic tenacity to create a classroom for future-ready learners.

Paul Beckermann 32:44
We'll be back here next Wednesday for a fresh episode of Unpacking Education.

Rena Clark 32:49
And remember, go forth and be awesome.

Winston Benjamin 32:53
Thank you for all you do.

Paul Beckermann 32:55
You make a difference.