CSEdWeek, with Kiki Prottsman

Kiki Prottsman, educator, author, and creator of The Educator's Workshop, joins the Unpacking Education team to explore the evolving intersection of computer science (CS) and artificial intelligence (AI). Kiki discusses how Computer Science Education Week (CSEdWeek) has grown from a grassroots awareness campaign into a dynamic movement that reaches learners of all ages and subject areas. Our conversation with Kiki dives into what it means to teach computer science in a time of rapid technological change, touching upon concerns around AI replacing critical thinking and ideas for making coding more accessible. Visit AVID Open Access to learn more.

Transcript

CSEdWeek, with Kiki Prottsman

Introduction

Kiki Prottsman 0:00
CS Ed Week, Computer Science Education Week, happens the second week of December every year, and it started as a way to kind of be a hype machine for computer science education, because teachers didn't teach it because they didn't grow up learning it.

Paul Beckermann 0:17
The topic for today's podcast is CS Ed Week with Kiki Prottsman.

Paul Beckermann 0:23
Unpacking Education is brought to you by AVID. AVID believes in seeing the potential of every student. To learn more about AVID, visit their website at avid.org.

Rena Clark 0:34
Welcome to Unpacking Education, the podcast where we explore current issues and best practices in education. I'm Rena Clark.

Paul Beckermann 0:45
I'm Paul Beckermann.

Winston Benjamin 0:46
And I'm Winston Benjamin. We are educators.

Paul Beckermann 0:50
And we're here to share insights and actionable strategies.

Transition Music with Rena's Children 0:55
Education is our passport to the future.

Opening Discussion

Paul Beckermann 1:00
CS Ed Week runs December 8th through 14th this year, and our quote for today is actually from the official CS Ed Week website. On the kickoff page, they write: "We're spotlighting how computer science fuels the innovations behind artificial intelligence. As AI reshapes our world, a strong CS foundation isn't just helpful—it's essential. Join us as we equip the next generation with the computational thinking and problem-solving skills to lead in AI development and create impactful solutions for the future."

All right, Winston, what are you thinking about?

Winston Benjamin 1:35
The quote for today, there's a bit of future-casting for me and a conversation about leveling the playing field. Because when I was growing up, I remember computers—you had to have a lot of money to be able to get on anything, and my parents didn't have a lot of money. So my knowledge and learning of computers came when I went to college and had the opportunity to get access.

So with this, the fact that all you need is the ability to think and problem-solve and utilize your mind, I think every student has an opportunity to be able to maximize their skill set and also be able to engage with this in terms of a future opportunity. So there's a bit of coolness in that for me, right? That there's a level playing field where more people can participate in something, and also the future.

Paul Beckermann 2:31
Sure. Rena, what are you thinking about?

Rena Clark 2:35
Well, now that Winston said that, I'm thinking about something a little different. But I was thinking about how we really want to connect computer science to AI. And Winston was talking about when he didn't have access to computers. Thinking of it now, I think students have so much access to technology that they don't understand the technology or how it works or functions. And the same kind of goes with AI, but really understanding about what makes AI possible.

So having some background about computer science is the foundation behind AI. So getting students to build those computational thinking, problem-solving skills now that they have the devices, so that they understand a little bit more. And that way, I think they can be more responsible, they can be safer, they can be truly more creative—like their own creativity. And that's just important for us to teach.

And as we're thinking about future-ready and jobs, really helping them understand systems that are shaping the world and how they could be an active part of the system and not just letting it happen to them. So it's digging in a little deeper.

Paul Beckermann 3:47
There was a cartoon—I guess it was a cartoon before they had memes; it probably would have been a meme back in the day—but it was about three kinds of people in the world: those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened. And we want our kids to be informed enough so that they're not just wondering what in the world is happening to them, right? I mean, at the very least it gives them that, and if they get the skills, then they can actually make things happen too. So it's got all three levels.

Introducing Kiki Prottsman

Paul Beckermann 4:01
Well, we are excited to welcome Kiki Prottsman back to the podcast. Kiki is our good friend from past episodes. She's an educator, author, and creator of The Educators Workshop, a venture dedicated to bringing play, fun, and hands-on learning into classrooms through educational games, tools, and teacher training.

Formerly the Director of Education at Microsoft MakeCode, Kiki is the author of Let's All Teach Computer Science: Computational Thinking and Coding for Every Student and My First Coding Book. Her work has helped shape computer science education for millions of students and teachers worldwide. Hey, welcome back, Kiki!

Kiki Prottsman 4:55
Hey, thanks for having me back.

Paul Beckermann 4:58
So great to have you here. So if any of our listeners have not tuned in to the past episodes with you and are less familiar with who you are, do you want to just give a little further introduction of yourself?

Kiki Prottsman 5:11
Sure. Yes, I have been computer science education obsessed since college, really. And when I realized I was one of only three girls in a program of 200 people, I knew something was very, very wrong. So I pretty much dedicated my life to bringing more equity into computer science and helping people join computer science—believing that they could do it when they maybe didn't have any previous exposure to it to know that it was even a thing.

So I did a lot in the way of getting people started younger so that we could level the playing field, and when college came and was teaching that real computer science, there were more people being represented in that classroom. And that kind of slowly became bringing real computer science down to very young kids through my work with Code.org and then later Microsoft MakeCode.

What is CS Ed Week?

Winston Benjamin 6:10
Awesome. Again, this is coming home. It's welcome! I'm glad to see you again. But the best and also one of the hardest things about education is the fact that we have so many new people coming in, and they have to learn all the new jargon. And this is another valuable thing that we can add to their plate.

Could you just give a rundown of what CS Ed Week is? Or for those who are still remembering what it is and need a refresher—what's it about, when is it? Just to get a nice little rundown, if you don't mind.

Kiki Prottsman 6:49
Yeah, absolutely. CS Ed Week, Computer Science Education Week, happens the second week of December every year, and it started as a way to kind of be a hype machine for computer science education, because teachers didn't teach it because they didn't grow up learning it. So it's one of those things that was a very intimidating topic for teachers to just kind of grab and move forward with.

So there was a movement to try to just let them have a taste of it. Just take a taste of teaching it, let your students have a taste of doing it, and then together we can all learn. After that took off a little bit, then Hour of Code came around, aligned with CS Ed Week. And so most people will be familiar with hearing Hour of Code or something of that nature, if they don't know what CS Ed Week is.

Rena Clark 7:42
Okay. Well, we know what it is, but now we need to know what can we do to participate in CS Ed Week? You mentioned Hour of Code. I know it goes way beyond Hour of Code. So do you have any favorite activities or recommendations for all levels of teachers?

Kiki Prottsman 8:02
Yeah, the ease of participating has become greater every single year. There's literally stuff out there for everybody. If you can't take the time to specifically say, "I'm going to do coding and just focus on coding and coding-based things," and you're in English class, you can now find activities that require coding that you can do in your English class in an hour. You can find things you can do in your math class in an hour, and you don't need much prep because people have kind of evolved to this space where they have lesson plans that you can just take and go.

Most of those you're going to find either on the Computer Science Teachers Association website, so csta.org, I believe it is, or the Hour of Code website—although that is changing a bit. It has changed a bit over the last year. It used to be really easy to kind of filter and do everything, and they've changed. Now, from a place where everybody can put their activities in and they get filtered, to now being a more curated, elite set of experiences. And those previous experiences are all kind of hidden a couple of links down. But it's still a good place to go if you're looking for stuff.

And then other people who didn't put their stuff on one of those two—you can really just go into any browser now and type "CS Ed Week experiences for this grade and this subject," and you're going to find something.

Paul Beckermann 9:37
Nice, awesome. And you can maybe ask ChatGPT for ideas.

Kiki Prottsman 9:44
It just might not tell you the truth.

AI and Computer Science Education

Paul Beckermann 9:47
You're right. Well, speaking of AI, let's go back to the quote for the day, because that kind of revolved around some of the focus for CS Ed Week this year and the connection between computer science and AI. Which, depending on your perspective and where you're coming from in the world, you might know different bits and pieces of that.

What do you think about that connection and that theme for CS Ed Week this year? And why do you think that's an important connection to make?

Kiki Prottsman 10:17
The term that comes to mind is "I'm spiraling," but that brings a very negative connotation. But the more I learn, I tend to shift my perspective on things and kind of go around in circles to some degree.

At one point I was thinking, yeah, absolutely, AI is the new big thing in technology. People need to learn about it. They need to learn to use it. They need to learn how it's made. But AI keeps chugging along, and it keeps getting better and smarter and also more tempting to use and have it take over things.

And I don't think it's quite been made clear yet the difference between using AI and understanding how AI was created. So I think we're in a spot right now where Code.org, I think, is going with Hour of AI this year instead of Hour of Code, at least last I heard. So I think having that kind of Hour of AI theming could be a little confusing and difficult this year. Maybe next year we would be in a different spot.

But lots of teachers are still trying to figure out how to use it. I think if it's done in a way where there's really a spotlight being shown on the accessibility—how it allows more people to enter coding, how it is a tool, a technological tool, and here's how you can train it to do something, or here's how you can empower yourself or empower others using it—I think that's a great message. I'm 100% for that.

I think there's also a risk of using it almost in a way that's a little bit of an antithesis of what computer science education is supposed to be, right? Computer science education—I was really never teaching people computer science so that they would learn to code. I was teaching them so that they had better debugging skills, better skills in persistence, more critical thinking, those types of things. I really wanted to empower a learner to have people be very thoughtful about things, and then that makes all learning easier the rest of their lives.

I'm starting to see a trend when people are adopting AI that they let themselves turn their thinkers off, right? They use it as a shortcut. And maybe they wouldn't have had their homework assignment done at all without AI, so there are things—you know, that's where the spiral comes in—they're at least doing it, even if they're not doing it all themselves.

But I know that there becomes a tendency then, instead of working through a problem yourself and being persistent and going, "Oh, that's what they meant when they were trying to say this in class," you now kind of have a shortcut past all that. And you get this end product that now is just kind of empty because it didn't have all the learning that comes with it.

So yeah, I go back and forth, and I imagine next month I will have a different perspective.

Paul Beckermann 13:44
Well, and I go back to that, you know, my comment on the quote at the beginning too. You know, people make things happen, watch things happen, or wonder what happened. And I do wonder if getting more students engaged in some of that computer science education can help demystify some of that and get better awareness for students.

Kiki Prottsman 14:05
Yeah. So this is kind of shameful as a CS educator to admit, but I could never get my kids interested in it. I think they saw it all the time and thought it was just that thing that Mom does, so we don't want to do it.

And my 20-year-old came to me during a football game—their favorite team was playing—and they had their computer, their laptop, and they said, "Hey, I want to create an app. I want an app that you can see in real time where the sun is in relationship to—or where the earth is in relationship to the sun—with the moon in 3D, and you can see the shadows and the lights and where you are and all of that. And I want to build that right then during their football game.

Paul Beckermann 15:47
Wow.

Kiki Prottsman 15:48
And yeah. And I said, "Well, we have a couple of options. One of them is I try to sit here and teach you how to code in time for you to build that entire thing by yourself. And I can tell you right now that's not happening during a Ducks game. Go Ducks. Or you can try using Claude and see if you can explain your problem, tell it what you want, see what comes out the other side."

And in 20 minutes, he had an app that was very close to what he wanted. But then the fine-tuning—it couldn't get, at least not within the amount of credits that he had. So he had to do research online. He had to try and figure out—he had to go into GitHub. He had to set up a GitHub account. He had to set up a VS Code account. He had to get the code base that he needed to get these maps for his stuff. And he had to try and figure out which part of it he needed.

So it did jumpstart his learning. It took a big chunk of what he needs to know to do all of the stuff he wants to do and just eliminated the learning that could have happened in that time. But it got him interested, it made him feel powerful, and got him to the place where he was now invested and couldn't just put it away without learning that other stuff. So kind of a weird time.

Paul Beckermann 16:17
Yeah, it's such an evolving time. It really is.

The Impact of AI on CS Education

Winston Benjamin 16:21
It's kind of like a backwards design of interest, then leaning into the learning space, right? So you've got—they say that a learner can't learn anything without someone pushing that, which is AI, right? That zone of proximal development.

But one of the things that I really am trying to dig in a little bit more in what you're saying is you talked about how you wanted people to learn computer science in order to be able to process and think long-term. Now we have this thing that, as we all see—even with your son—is a shortcut for the learning, right?

My question is, what impact do you see AI having on the need for computer science education, and extending that computer science education as a whole, right? How is it shifting it, changing it, impacting it? And then, why do people still need to have an understanding of it moving forward, if that makes sense?

Kiki Prottsman 17:27
Yeah. I don't think it's that dissimilar from if you can have AI read your papers and summarize them, why do people need to know how to read? Or if you need to write a paper and it can do most of that for you, why do you still need to know how to write?

There's still going to be this overarching "now that's not exactly what I meant," and plus there's that communication that happens in trying to get all of that out there in the first place. But I think a couple of other interesting things are going to happen.

There was a perception that computer science education was there to get more computer scientists because we were very short on programmers, on engineers, on people who knew how to do that. And there was an issue there. And now those jobs—what used to be a team of five working on something is now, by and large, one master programmer using AI, and that does the work of the same amount of people. And so there are a lot fewer jobs, and usually they have these experienced coders doing this.

Well, where are you going to get experienced coders now if you don't have this happening? So I think there's going to be a wave there. But I also think that what they look for in a coder is going to be different. Now, instead of looking for somebody who just eats, sleeps, and breathes Java or C# or whatever language they happen to be looking for, they're really going to be looking for a manager that understands code.

And it's now not just going to be the tech companies that need that, because guess what? Anyone can write an app now. So healthcare companies are going to need that. Sports companies are going to need that. Heck, somebody starting their own business is going to need that, right?

So if you now have 10 times as many people who know a fair amount of code but also know how to describe a problem, who also know how to go back and forth without getting frustrated, who have some of these—what people call soft skills, but I think they're kind of the sharpest skills you can have—if you have more people who need those things and coding in order to make the future work, I think in a way that's going to move us forward.

Focus Areas for CS Education

Rena Clark 20:09
Absolutely. So kind of bringing that back to education, then, as we're trying to educate students and knowing that's what we need, what might be some of the most important issues or topics that we should be focusing on in computer science education—and not just maybe the coding?

Kiki Prottsman 20:31
Yeah. Well, I think the problem-solving is always going to be there. It doesn't matter what entity is doing the coding—being able to figure out where things are working well and where things are going wrong.

But also, I think there's a huge ethics portion that needs to come in. Just like we've really started digging into the ethics of the internet and cybersecurity and all of that, I think ethics around AI and the equity issues that come in—having all this subscription-based AI stuff, really investigating the biases behind how things are trained, and training off of data that other AI maybe don't have access to. And what does it mean for one person to choose one AI as their main path forward, and someone else to have a different AI as their main path forward if things aren't standardized?

We have this thing that I don't think has ever happened before, where the world is changing so fast, and education does not change that fast. And classes that people are putting together right now will no longer be valid in two years around this stuff.

So I think, I guess now I'm changing my answer—ultimately they need to learn how to learn. They need to know how to keep up, or they're going to be left behind.

Rena Clark 22:09
Well, I just—even in my own classes, just that motivational piece. I just want to say, in general, we're in middle school. There seems to be a lack of motivation to even solve problems, because I can just go figure things out. But anyways, my kids this last week, they've been making games, and they've been collaborating, talking to each other. I've never seen them work so hard to solve a problem in their maze game than anything else we've done. But they were problem-solving to get that done and talking. And it was just so lovely to see kids at all different levels working together. And I was just sitting there watching. It was the nicest day ever.

Paul Beckermann 22:47
Yeah. And that's what we want. That's what we want out of our kids, right? We want them to be doing that.

Kiki Prottsman 22:53
And they're excited. Yeah, it's awesome.

Rena Clark 22:58
"How'd you get that to do that? And how did you—" But it's not—they actually have to talk, and they're looking at each other's stuff, and they're figuring it out for themselves. Yeah, it's very different.

Paul Beckermann 23:10
Yeah. We had a generational expert on the show this summer, and he was saying that the key isn't that our kids aren't capable. The key is getting them fired up about something. What is lighting that spark for them? Because if you light the spark, like Rena was just describing, they will go.

Winston Benjamin 23:31
Or even Kiki's son, right?

Paul Beckermann 23:36
During a football game! My goodness.

Rena Clark 23:40
I was thinking—everything, you need an app. I'm talking about just being the mom trying to organize the kids in a sport. I need an app. I need an app. It's you need to know that.

Paul Beckermann 23:54
You need an app, and then you need a nap.

Kiki Prottsman 23:58
Especially being a mom these days.

What Kiki is Working On

Paul Beckermann 24:02
All right. Well, one more question for you, Kiki. It's kind of a wide-open one. What have you been pondering or working on these days? What's with Kiki today?

Kiki Prottsman 24:13
Oh, I love this question. Yeah. So people who have heard me on before might notice that my bio changed a little bit. My resume looks a little bit different. I have started an education company called The Educators Workshop. Right now I'm pretty targeted towards teachers, trying to help teachers get tools that make learning more fun.

Originally, I wanted to do professional development stuff—get teachers more excited about doing computer science and technical education. But then when I was doing research, I found that the majority of educators don't enjoy PD, professional development, or professional learning. They don't like it. They don't feel like it gives them what they need. They don't feel like they walk away excited to implement the stuff that they were learning. And I went, "Wow, that's a shame."

And I know that there are some really great professional developments happening, and usually those people are bringing fun, right? There's an element of "I enjoyed this," and when I enjoy this, I'm invested, and I believe that I can do it.

So I started looking at—well, I've always done a little bit of research around fun and play and using those in the classroom, but I wanted to figure out more around just making experiences fun and potentially substituting play for assessment. So I was looking into that, and I kind of stumbled across this idea of game shows.

So I wanted to start a game show. At the time, I was calling it PD Quiz Show, because I thought PDQ would be just great for people my generation. And I wanted to have an actual quiz show—lights and buzzers and sets and the whole deal—that people could do their professional development and then be on a quiz show where they got to show off the knowledge that they got.

And the benefit was not just being in the quiz show after your session. It was that these episodes go up on YouTube and they're on social media, and there's clips. And now it's not a room of 50 people getting professional development—it's a million people getting micro-PDs whenever they can fit it in.

And that got me very excited. And as I started talking to people and trying to find funding, I realized that maybe not everybody outside of education knows what PD stands for. And even inside education, we're moving towards PL, professional learning. And so as hard as it was for me to give up that great name, I went towards Quiz Show Edu. And then that opens up some more, a greater education space. It opens up stuff with kids.

And now the idea is not just becoming a source of assessment for professional learning for educators, but I really want to create a debate-style club, but in quiz show style. So people have clubs in their schools where they study things and they try things out, and then they all compete against each other on the quiz shows. And you've got semi-finals and finals.

And so we just did our first quiz show this last Saturday. And yeah, it was amazing. And I'm going over footage—not right now, but now—and I will be putting some clips out there in an effort to get some hype and excitement and potentially sponsors.

Paul Beckermann 27:56
Awesome. Well, you send us a clip and we'll put it in the show notes.

Kiki Prottsman 28:00
Awesome. Sounds amazing. Will do.

Winston Benjamin 28:04
Say it again. What is it again?

Kiki Prottsman 28:06
It's now Quizshow.edu.

Winston Benjamin 28:08
Quizshow.edu. That's a great tool for our toolkit.

What's in Your Toolkit?

Transition Music with Rena's Children 28:12
Check it out. Check it out. Check it out. What's in the toolkit? Check it out.

Winston Benjamin 28:22
It's for the next part of our show: What's in Your Toolkit? What are you walking away with as a tool that you can use to move forward in your work? Paul, Rena, what tool are you taking away from this conversation? What would you like to add?

Paul Beckermann 28:40
I had not thought about this one until Kiki started talking about just the iterative process and the mindsets that people need in the whole computer science industry—the problem-solving and all of that—and then her son's story.

And I was thinking about Canva's new AI mode that you can use. And you can actually go in there and you describe the app or the functional website that you want, and it builds you a prototype. And then you have to continually iterate. You have to keep updating, asking questions, refining, reviewing what it's given you, changing it.

I tried it with a guitar chord generator. And the first version was a total fail, because the chords weren't even right in the illustrations. But after, you know, five or six iterations, it was pretty good.

So I think that could be a decent tool for students to kind of get introduced to app development, at least the mental process piece of that—of how you problem-solve your way through iterations. So it's the Canva AI tool.

Winston Benjamin 29:47
Rena?

Rena Clark 29:49
Yeah, there's so much out there. And I know as I'm building curriculum for my game design class, I've been looking all over the place at different things. So Bradley probably just came out with Experience CS. They've released—if you want to use Scratch with students—it's embedded in a safe platform for students to be using Scratch. And then they have for you different lessons, but they're also integrated lessons into core content: Weather Watchers, there was ones about taking a tour, creating interactive maps, Choose Your Own Adventure for social studies.

So it's not just for computer science teachers. Really laid out for you, really well, all free, open source. So that is out now, and I know they're building more and more onto that all the time. So you could check that out.

Winston Benjamin 30:39
I love that. Since we're all talking about CS Ed Week, I'm going to throw in CSEdWeek.org. Go to the website, check it out, see what ways that you can potentially take a lesson and just throw it to some kids that may potentially be interested in learning how to think like a scientist, code like a scientist, and do all those computer science engineering aspects.

Kiki, what would you like to throw into our toolkit?

Kiki Prottsman 31:06
I would like to throw in the idea that if you get a little frustrated with all the back and forth, and you get to a space where you just feel like it's not happening the way you want it to, remember that AI can be as meta as you want it to be.

So you can say, "Hey, this AI, I'm going to be asking that AI to do this thing for me. This is the prompt I've given it. This is what's going wrong. Can you help me create a better prompt to give that AI so I can get what I want?"

And it's a helpful way to unstick yourself if you're feeling stuck and frustrated.

Rena Clark 31:52
I might have done that because I needed some ideas for figuring in micro-dates with my husband because we've been so busy. So yeah, I just might have used it to help me create that schedule, because apparently I need a schedule to do that lately. There are some great ideas, though.

Speaking of great ideas, we are now into our One Thing sections.

That One Thing

Transition Music 32:30
It's time for that one thing. It's that one thing.

Rena Clark 32:32
So maybe we have one great idea, one thing we're still thinking about. What is our one thing for today and CS Ed Week?

Paul Beckermann 32:43
I think the one thing that from our conversation that's kind of stuck out to me is we need to get our kids fired up. We need to get them engaged in something at the root level so that they really are invested in something. Because our kids can be amazing if they have that drive and that focus on something.

So let's get them fired up and then give them situations where they can go after those things that they really are fired up about and develop some of those transferable skills that they'll need down the future. Because we don't know exactly what the future is going to be. So let's give them some of those transferable—I like "sharp skills," Kiki, like you said—that they will need to be successful down the road.

Winston Benjamin 33:31
For me, there's something Kiki said that is interesting in a way of how it's done in order to move forward. Quote: "We need to learn how to learn or get left behind." That's just a really good idea of this long-term learner. But because of AI shortcut, we've got to figure out a new way to engage with the information a little bit differently so that we're still utilizing our brain. So I like the idea of relearning in order to not get left behind.

Rena Clark 34:08
Yeah, I was thinking, I know when I'm being pushed I'm right on that edge. That's when we learn the most—is when we're uncomfortable. But how can we make kids uncomfortable and have fun at the same time? And I just don't think—even my own children—they're not okay being uncomfortable. Their attention is—they don't even know how to just sit and be bored. They don't understand what that actually means when they say they're bored. I'm like, "You have no idea. Sitting in a car for 16 hours and there was no tablet, there was no screen. You don't know what bored is."

But it's that push of we can make it fun, exciting, have them understand and be pushing their thinking at the same time. And then, like you said, Winston, we need to also connect that and have them understand what's going on. It sounds easy. It's hard.

Paul Beckermann 34:58
There was a quote that I just heard, Rena. It was about boredom. It was like, "Our kids are not creative enough because they're not bored enough. We need to let them get bored. Take their devices away so they get bored."

Rena Clark 35:10
My brothers and I came up with all kinds of interesting games that we just made up ourselves because we didn't want to just sit there.

Kiki Prottsman 35:19
Yeah, but I can tell you my kids did not get hurt nearly as much as I did.

Rena Clark 35:23
Yeah, doing stupid things. There were no hockey sticks or, you know...

Winston Benjamin 35:29
You learn life preservation.

Paul Beckermann 35:32
That's if you're lucky. All right, Kiki, you get to play along too. What's your final thoughts?

Kiki Prottsman 35:43
Oh yeah. I think I'm going to go back to what Winston was talking about, about having those equal opportunities to really have that tool and be able to do something great. And so just making sure that people are keeping their eye on the prize and looking out for when things are becoming inequitable because some people have access and some people don't.

Closing

Paul Beckermann 36:05
All right. Well, we want to thank you once again, Kiki, for returning to the show and hanging out with us for a little while. We love having you on.

Kiki Prottsman 36:14
Literally any time. And hey, if it means you're going to play the jingle again, I'm happy to be here.

Paul Beckermann 36:19
We're going to play the jingle. All right, let's cue it up. Here we go.

Song 36:42
It's the most wonderful time of the year. CS Ed Week is loading. Those files we're downloading. It brings us great cheers. It's the most wonderful time of the year. We really do love computer science.

Rena Clark 37:02
Thanks for listening to Unpacking Education.

Winston Benjamin 37:06
We invite you to visit us at avidopenaccess.org where you can discover resources to support student agency and academic tenacity to create a classroom for future-ready learners.

Paul Beckermann 37:18
We'll be back here next Wednesday for a fresh episode of Unpacking Education.

Rena Clark 37:23
And remember, go forth and be awesome.

Winston Benjamin 37:28
Thank you for all you do.

Paul Beckermann 37:29
You make a difference.