A Career in the Sciences, with Dr. Ray Wheeler

What does it take to pursue a lifelong career in science, and what unexpected paths might lead there? In this episode, Dr. Ray Wheeler reflects on his 36-year career as a senior scientist and plant physiologist at NASA, where he helped pioneer research in growing plants for space travel. From Boy Scouts to botany to breakthrough innovations at the Kennedy Space Center, Dr. Wheeler shares how curiosity, collaboration, and perseverance guided his journey.

Listeners will gain insights into the scientific process, the value of interdisciplinary teamwork, and the vital role of education and durable skills in shaping future scientists. Whether you're sparking student interest in STEM or looking for real-world applications of classroom learning, this episode offers a fascinating look into the possibilities of a career in science.

Visit AVID Open Access to learn more.

Transcript

Dr. Ray Wheeler 0:00
Because we were a multidisciplinary group, we had people looking at things from different angles—and then all these other things that are involved with it: the engineering aspect, the chemistry, the biology, the mathematics that you have to know to go behind us. So there's something for everyone.

Paul Beckermann 0:20
The topic for today's podcast is a career in the sciences with Dr. Ray Wheeler. Unpacking Education is brought to you by AVID.org. AVID believes in seeing the potential of every student. To learn more about AVID, visit their website at avid.org.

Rena Clark 0:37
Welcome to Unpacking Education, the podcast where we explore current issues and best practices in education.

Rena Clark 0:46
I'm Rena Clark.

Paul Beckermann 0:47
I'm Paul Beckermann.

Winston Benjamin 0:49
And I'm Winston Benjamin. We are educators.

Paul Beckermann 0:53
And we're here to share insights and actionable strategies. Education is our passport to the future.

Paul Beckermann 1:02
Our quote today is from our guest, Dr. Ray Wheeler, in an interview for NASA's Tech Transfer publication. Ray says, “Details may seem trivial to some, but there are many things to consider when looking at developing plant growth systems for deep space travel or even on the International Space Station.”
All right, Winston, we’ll give you a stab at this one first. What are your thoughts?

Winston Benjamin 1:23
I don’t know if I can relate to heading to deep space or the International Space Station, but what I am thinking about is the details—recognizing there’s a lot that goes into supporting students and trying to figure out a classroom and make things run. Some kids may have a dream to go into deep space or be on the space station. As a teacher, it’s recognizing how you provide as many opportunities for students to see they can get where they want to go, without forgetting the details it takes to get them there. It’s that balance of giving the dreams SMART goals—having the dreams but also having realistic ideas of how to get there. That’s an important part of what we do for students. That’s how I’m relating the “details” part to our work as teachers.

Paul Beckermann 2:17
Yeah, I like that. I thought you were going to go with something like, “Going to middle school is like going to another world.”

Winston Benjamin 2:22
Listen, I was going to talk about my sister and me dreaming of being in Deep Space Nine, actually watching it. There you go. I’m on the low trying to hold myself from jumping out of my chair, but…

Paul Beckermann 2:38
All right, all right. Rena, what are you thinking about?

Rena Clark 2:42
I think, to extend on that, a lot of the little details are important, and sometimes we forget. Being intentional, especially at the start of the school year, matters. I’ve been talking to a lot of teachers—thinking about how we intentionally use that first five minutes and last five minutes of class. Doing the math—say 180 days, five minutes each day, that’s 900 minutes of instruction, 15 hours. If it’s both, you’re looking at 30 hours of instruction from the first five and last five minutes. If we use that time intentionally, that’s a lot. Those details add up.

Paul Beckermann 3:26
Yes, they do. Well, here are a few details about our guest. Today we’re welcoming Dr. Ray Wheeler to the podcast. Ray recently retired after a 36-year career at NASA, where he helped pioneer plant research and advanced life support groups as a senior scientist and plant physiologist. Ray earned multiple awards, including Distinguished Engineer Technologist Retiree, NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal, and the NASA Exceptional Service Medal at Kennedy Space Center.
So, Ray, with that—welcome to the show.

Dr. Ray Wheeler 3:59
Well, thank you, Paul. It’s great to be here.

Paul Beckermann 4:03
Awesome. To get started, could you tell our listeners a little about yourself and your journey to a career at NASA?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 4:13
Sure. As Paul mentioned, I recently retired from NASA, but I’ve been a researcher through most of my professional career. Unlike you guys—you’re professional educators—I’m more research-focused. But I think the two are intertwined, and hopefully as we talk, some of that will come out.
Like a lot of students, I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. When I got into college, it exposed me to different things and people. I got my degree in astronomy—this is going to sound odd since I’m a biologist and plant biologist now, so I did a 90-degree turn somewhere. But my interest in biology goes back to when I was in school and involved in Boy Scouts. I had an outstanding scoutmaster, and we were always out in nature. That stuck with me as I learned more about the world.
In graduate school, I got into plant biology and started connecting with NASA activities. I loved that.

Winston Benjamin 5:57
As I said earlier, I’m very excited to talk to you because it’s like a dream to say I’ve spoken to a NASA scientist. A little kid like me growing up in New York could never imagine making a connection to you. So I’m glad our audience and listeners can connect to their students through this. Can you tell us about your work at NASA? What was your favorite project you worked on? What did you enjoy most? Help demystify what it means to work at NASA—because a lot of times people think, “I’ve got to be a genius.” I’m sure you’re smart as heck, but help make it more real.

Rena Clark 6:40
It’s just so easy in movies, that’s all.

Winston Benjamin 6:42
You know what I’m saying—space, they’re blowing up some rocks like…

Dr. Ray Wheeler 6:51
Yeah. Well, everybody has their own path they follow. When I got into graduate school, you get your bachelor’s degree, then pursue something like a master’s. In my case, I stayed on and got a Ph.D. That’s where I began to do research, funded through NASA grants. I just happened to connect with professors getting NASA funding in plant ecology and physiology. I wasn’t planning that, but as I learned more, I really began to enjoy and embrace it. That helped me get connected with a broader research community. You go to professional meetings—just like you guys as educators—you build networks and connect with people. That’s how I got going with NASA.
Some of my favorite things I did were my early years at Kennedy Space Center, where I had a great boss. He said, “Ray, tell me what you think you should do.” I said, “I think I should publish two research papers a year.” He said, “Okay, that’s your job.” That allowed me to work with a great team and come up with concepts. We had a unique test system at Kennedy Space Center, so everything we were doing was novel. It allowed me to do research with great collaborators and publish it. That’s important as a researcher—you want to publish papers and build your résumé.
Along the way, I went to graduate school at Utah State, then was a postdoctoral associate at the University of Wisconsin–Madison. Postdocs are sort of Ph.D.s who can’t get real jobs—it’s like an internship in the biomedical field. It’s a great time to focus before administrative stuff comes later in your career.
So, I hope I answered that.

Winston Benjamin 9:40
The joy was the journey.

Rena Clark 9:46
I love that. And as you’re talking, I think we’ve all been led down that way—using collaboration and networks. Often the path we start on isn’t where we end. I was a sociology major who wrote a thesis on motorcycle culture, and now I teach STEM, digital literacy, and game programming. So yes, it’s a winding path. There are transferable skills that cross any career.
Since I work with kids and teach science, we’re always trying to connect with professionals doing the work. As a NASA scientist, how do you approach a project? What kind of scientific process did you and your team use—from idea to hypothesis to conclusion? What was that like in practice?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 10:53
Yeah—first, Rena, let me interject. We need sociologists for space, by the way! Think about people going off and living in small societies—ethnographic, sociological, anthropological studies are really important. Anyway, that’s not what you asked.

Paul Beckermann 11:13
That’s your next career, Rena. There you go.

Rena Clark 11:15
I feel like my degree connects to everything I do. Sociology is everywhere.

Dr. Ray Wheeler 11:23
Exactly. So, how did we generate ideas and hypotheses? I worked with a talented group—microbiologists, engineers, agricultural engineers, chemists, computer scientists. A common approach was sitting around a table to brainstorm ideas, sift through them, and decide which ones to pursue.
We’d design experiments—not always classic hypothesis-testing like Francis Bacon described—but we’d ask practical questions: In space, plants face high carbon dioxide levels from human breathing. What does that do to plants? We’d test ambient CO₂, then 2x, 5x, and 10x levels—a regression-style experiment.
We’d also run manipulated vs. control tests. Having a baseline is essential for comparison and interpretation. That’s how we drew conclusions and published.
Because we were multidisciplinary, people looked at things from different angles. Microbiologists cared about bacteria growing on roots, even in hydroponic systems. Plants, like humans, have microbiomes. Learning from colleagues broadened my understanding.
We always kept our end goal in mind: publishing in peer-reviewed journals. When your paper is accepted, that’s a big moment—everyone celebrates. Journals have tiers, so you aim high.

Paul Beckermann 15:51
It’s like students getting their A’s—when you get published, it’s the pinnacle.

Dr. Ray Wheeler 15:58
Great comparison! You get your “A” and feel good about it.

Rena Clark 16:03
That authentic audience is huge. I love that.

Paul Beckermann 16:09
Yeah. Let’s connect this to classrooms. You talked about how Scouts and college experiences led you toward NASA. How can teachers spark that same sense of exploration and career interest in students? How can they tap into kids’ innate interests and excitement?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 16:49
I didn’t realize this at first, but space as a theme really opens your thinking. It frees you from constraints and lets you imagine differently. How will we grow plants on Mars? In zero gravity? How do you water them when water floats? You must collaborate with engineers and scientists.
As humans, we’ll leave Earth eventually. It’s technically possible, but we must understand how. Thinking about taking our plant companions for survival fascinated me—like in The Martian, when Mark Watney grows potatoes on Mars for food and oxygen. The engineering, chemistry, biology, and math behind it all—there’s something for everyone.

Paul Beckermann 18:54
I love that you said, “There’s something for everyone,” because project-based learning thrives on diverse interests and expertise. It sounds a lot like what you were doing at NASA.

Rena Clark 19:12
If you’re looking for a theme—apparently, space is the place.

Paul Beckermann 19:18
T-shirt idea!

Winston Benjamin 19:23
That actually helps me transition to the next question. From the beginning to now, how has NASA science evolved, and where do you see it going? How can students see their potential roles in it?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 20:00
It’s definitely changed. We’re much smarter now with better sensors, tools, and understanding of closed systems—important in space biology. Think of it like island biology—how ecosystems evolve in isolation.
Technology has advanced immensely: vertical farming, LED plant lighting, hydroponics—all influenced by NASA research. Many space innovations have become everyday agricultural tools. It’s been fascinating to see those spin-offs.

Rena Clark 23:21
Yeah, I’ll take LEDs over Tang!

Rena Clark 23:31
It’s fascinating—how byproducts of research evolve us too.

Rena Clark 23:59
At AVID and in education, we talk about durable, transferable skills like collaboration, communication, problem-solving, and creativity. What role did those play at NASA?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 24:01
They were invaluable. No one succeeds without collaboration. Communication is essential—you must share your findings, get peer feedback, and sometimes have others challenge your work. Problem-solving is at the heart of research, and creativity keeps it fun.
An example: in graduate school, a chemist neighbor suggested a new method. At first, I dismissed it because “we don’t do that.” The next day, I realized it was brilliant. Getting outside perspectives fuels innovation.

Rena Clark 26:37
That’s so transferable. Teachers often feel isolated, but sharing ideas and strategies is powerful. Collaboration—across subjects, even—helps us all grow. Those same skills prepare our students for future jobs.

Paul Beckermann 27:37
Building on that—Ray, if you were writing an article for educators, what top two or three skills should teachers help students develop for a career in science?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 28:11
From my experience:

1. Build a broad foundation—learn across disciplines, even liberal arts.
2. Be persistent and patient. You won’t get instant gratification, but growth comes through perseverance.
3. Network—connections matter.

Winston Benjamin 31:06
That’s great advice. What about students who don’t know what they want yet? How should they move forward?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 32:14
Patience only goes so far—you still have to pay bills! Internships are great. Even small opportunities expose you to real work, build networks, and help you see what fits. Don’t be shy about asking professionals for advice. Most are happy to share.

Winston Benjamin 34:46
I appreciate that. That’s something I can add to my life toolkit. Speaking of which, let’s move to our next segment—what’s in your toolkit?

Transition Music with Rena’s Children 35:00
Check it out. Check it out. What’s in the toolkit?

Winston Benjamin 35:07
Check it out! Paul, Rena—what’s in your toolkit from this conversation?

Rena Clark 35:16
Different perspectives—teaching and learning. I’m thinking about resources like Roadtrip Nation and AVID Open Access that help students explore careers and gain opportunity knowledge through experience. Even virtually, teachers can bring that into classrooms.

Winston Benjamin 36:05
Paul, what about you?

Paul Beckermann 36:07
I’m reflecting on Ray’s comments about collaboration and the 4Cs—critical thinking, creativity, communication, and collaboration. Teachers sometimes fear AI will replace these, but at AVID Open Access, we’ve published resources showing how AI can enhance them. Check out our AI in the K–12 Classroom collection.

Winston Benjamin 36:57
Good point. For me, networking stands out. We don’t always teach students how to network or seek mentorships. That’s a life skill worth emphasizing.
Ray, you’ve been dropping gems all episode. Do you have one more tool for our toolkit?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 37:57
Yes—programs like “Growing Beyond Earth,” managed through Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden in Miami. They partner with schools nationwide to have students grow plants in controlled systems, and NASA uses their data! So, look for grants and outreach STEM opportunities—they’re out there.

Transition Music 39:16
Yes—and check NASA’s website for educator resources, too.
That leads us into our next section—our “One Thing.”

Transition Music 39:36
Time for that one thing. One thing—that one thing.

Rena Clark 39:44
What’s the one thing that’s resonating with us? Who wants to start?

Winston Benjamin 39:53
I will. When Ray said, “We need sociologists in space,” that opened my thinking. It shows how interdisciplinary careers can be. We should help students see those connections—how diverse paths lead to unexpected opportunities.

Paul Beckermann 41:12
Mine’s similar. I love that Ray said he didn’t know what he wanted to be when he grew up. It reminds us that it’s okay to figure things out as we go—and to stay curious.

Rena Clark 41:52
Exactly. For me, it’s about questioning—teaching students how to form great questions. That’s where learning begins.

Paul Beckermann 42:25
Good question, Rena—so, Ray, what’s your one thing? What do you want to leave listeners with?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 42:36
Education is so important. Make the most of it. It opens doors. It’s not always easy, but persistence and effort pay off. Everything you said resonates with me completely.

Paul Beckermann 43:17
Are you wandering in outer space now, Ray—calling from Mars?

Dr. Ray Wheeler 43:24
Weightlessness! Mars has one-third Earth’s gravity, and the Moon has one-sixth.

Winston Benjamin 43:34
See, that’s what impresses me—you just know that! For me, growing up, I dreamed of being a scientist, but I didn’t think it was possible. Conversations like this remind me—and our students—that it still can be.
Paul, I might be floating in space right now, but I’m inspired.

Paul Beckermann 44:20
Thank you for joining us, Ray.

Dr. Ray Wheeler 44:23
My pleasure. This was a lot of fun.

Rena Clark 44:26
Thanks for listening to Unpacking Education.

Winston Benjamin 44:29
Visit us at avidopenaccess.org to discover resources that support student agency and academic tenacity—and help you create a classroom for future-ready learners.

Paul Beckermann 44:42
We’ll be back next Wednesday with a new episode of Unpacking Education.

Rena Clark 44:47
And remember—go forth and be awesome.

Winston Benjamin 44:50
Thank you for all you do.

Paul Beckermann 44:53
You make a difference.